guidezine

Take us back to 1650. What do you think were the guiding principles of architecture and urban design?

That’s a difficult and easy question at the same time. The cities were designed with a Baroque criterion.  Lima was a city with an important symbolic component. Above all, the presence of the church, the ecclesiastical power and that of the monarchy was crystallized in the city. The city had been founded some hundred years before 1650 and was already a consolidated city.

 

Do you know why I asked you that question? Because in another interview you had said that you would love to live in 1650. Why did you choose that year?

Why did I choose that year? Because I've always really liked the 17th century. Lima was a city with a very defined personality. It is a time of enormous economic boom with splendid buildings. Lima begins to be Lima. While there are many buildings that still survive from that time, I would love to see what it was like then. Now we are restoring a church that is from that time, so it would be super interesting to go back and compare what it was really like and see if we’re doing the restoration right.

 

The answer would have to do with my desire to know Lima at a time that I personally find fascinating. I like how the artistic and architectural expression of the 17th century is in the different expressions of the baroque: the Spanish baroque, the English, the Dutch, the French, the Italian, etc. I have always liked the 17th century a lot, perhaps because I really like the semi-darkness, the black and the semi-shade. It is also a time of great brilliance.

 

You are an architect. Is there a contrast with the values ​​of architecture today, and that of a few centuries ago? Perhaps everything they built then was for glory, for god, arete?

I think your perception is totally true. Before people built to last forever — for glory, as you say. They made the city for personal glory or for the glory of God… all the buildings, all the houses. People built their homes not only so that they could live there all their lives, but also so that their children, their grandchildren and all their descendants could continue to live in that house. There was an idea of ​​transcendence that no longer exists today. Today, one no longer builds forever. Moreover, people are constantly moving.

 

And today, in contrast, what do you think are the guiding principles for design? For urban design?

I think that in the end, in all times, people are looking for the same thing, which is comfort. At that time, comfort was understood in a different way perhaps. Today what defines how cities develop is commercial. I think that's what would make the most difference. Before, people did things out of transcendence while today they do them with a mercantilist criterion. I think this has its origin in industrial manufacturing — in the industrial revolution. But today when a city is designed, you are no longer thinking about making houses that will last for furture generations of your family. You are thinking that you have to get the most out of the lot so that you can have more apartments per building and you can earn more money.

 

This is a personal curiosity… In Lima it is rare that one sees new buildings that prioritize light and ventilation. Do they not teach about the importance of light and ventilations in university anymore?

Yes, they do from the first semester. There is no architecture without light. Light is always important for architecture because light defines volumes, defines shadows, defines textures — color changes with light. That is why our city is not the same in winter as in summer, the architecture changes. Lima is more beautiful when there is sun.

 

Do you agree with me that many architects then do not prioritize natural light…

Not everything we see is architecture. Not all those constructions are architecture. What we see today more than architecture are buildings. Architecture is an art. I do not mean that there are fewer architects than before, in fact, there are more architects than before. If there are more people, if the city is bigger, there must be more architects too, and there are very good architects, but the problem is that not everything we see is made by architects. Why? Because when you build, you build with a mercantilist criterion, you are not building something looking for beauty, or looking for transcendence — you are building simply for profit. So if someone is going to build a building, one may not build a building to be beautiful, nor for the glory of the owner, nor for the glory of the architect, nor for the glory of the city, nor for the glory of anyone, simply to earn money. So, if your maxim is to earn money then no, that's not art.

 

What are your favorite buildings in Lima?

I love Puruchuco. It is at the end of in La Molina. It is a pre-Hispanic site. People always associate me more with Viceroyalty Lima, but this is a beautiful building where light plays a fundamental role, it is a perfect architecture. You have volumes, you have textures, you have a settlement in space that is very successful.

 

And what era is it from?

I think it's from the XII century.

 

From the Pachacamac culture?

No, it's from the Ychma culture and it's very close from here.

 

There are many other buildings that I think are amazing in Lima. As a boy I always liked the San Francisco convent. I still like it.

 

Who are your favorite contemporary Peruvian architects?

I am going to mention one and this is not to say that I do not appreciate the architecture of others. But it has a lot to do with your previous questions. I believe that Enrique Normand is an architect who follows a tradition of good architecture in this city, with a contemporary language and great sensitivity. He has been able to identify what makes Lima's architecture special.

 

What are the biggest challenges to restore a historic center like Lima?

The limeños.

 

Why?

Because in the end the city is made by us people. It is a challenge to convince Limeños that the historic center is a place with value. I mean really convincing ourselves, not only from the banal appreciation of things. I think that is the biggest challenge and greatest difficulty.

 

What makes you feel most optimistic about your work?

Watching the restoration unfold is satisfying. First is reviving the city through the physical restoration. But this physical restoration must generate activity —or life. It’s a symbiotic process: restoring the city also restores people's lives. That is what makes me optimistic – to see that it is possible that something lost may once again have the opportunity to be recovered and be inserted in our time. This is an essential requirement for it to be sustainable. If you restore something and don't use it, then it's doomed to loss again.

 

What is it that few know about the center of Lima that you can recommend?

The interiors. Lima is a city that needs someone to take you by the hand so that you can appreciate it. I think that is changing, it is changing to the extent that we are recovering public spaces and revealing the hidden beauty of Lima. The recovery of public spaces allows us to remove this veil. I like to use the analogy of the tapaditas [the covered ones], uncovering this dusty Lima and seeing, again, its beauty. So that beauty seen today on the outside has survived inside; hidden, hidden from the evil of people. And when I speak of evil I mean everything that corrupts the beautiful. When you walk down a street, you have no idea what is behind that door. And I think that's the most surprising thing about Lima.

 

Is having a vision and then executing it for the long term a lonely journey?

Yes. Yes, because it is a journey that begins in solitude. It starts as dream. Then it becomes less lonely when the dream that involves others. And that is what we are seeing today in the Historic Center. This dream began when I was a child and I found this book [“Lima, Historical Descriptive Statistical and Customs Notes”] and dreamed alone of recovering this city. Nowadays, the implementation of the dream means that more and more of us are dreaming of the same thing. So, you generate a shared dream and the work becomes less heavy because we are already many people. And that will also allow a long-term dream, such as the recovery of a historic center like Lima, to continue. In my life I will not be able to see this dream come true, but there are other people who, when I am gone, will be able to continue with this dream and I hope that they continue to infect other dreamers. It is what will make it sustainable and last.